Re: Best weapon for Z day

[Dan Champion]

Which is basically a slingshot minus the stick. Just two strips of cloth tied to the ends of a convex piece of leather

[GENJψ Æ 穴☼☢۞҉░]

if you're going for a headshot (we all know that's what gets the job done) .22 is plenty. Anything with enough power to pass through, or even damage the skull would work. Maybe we should learn to use a sling, not sling-shot, I'm talkin Old Testament sling.

slingshots especially the pro-rigs can get nasty on a target, but its also nasty too when the band or the tube snap on ya

[RandomCarnie]

I understand the human desire for more metal but along the idea of simplistics is also weight. Not an exact estimate here but for every .30-06 or 7.62 round you carry I can carry 5 or 6 Ballistic tipped or JHP .22 Magnum rounds. Not saying you do but for all the people that doubt it, I've dropped Whitetail/Mule Deer and Boars with .22 Ultra Mag loads, every time I hit its a sure-kill. You only need enough mass and velocity to get into the braincase, once the bullet goes into the skull you don't need to worry about it exiting as it will still have enough energy after entry to bounce around a couple times inside the cranium to scramble the ol' grey matter.

if you're going for a headshot (we all know that's what gets the job done) .22 is plenty. Anything with enough power to pass through, or even damage the skull would work. Maybe we should learn to use a sling, not sling-shot, I'm talkin Old Testament sling.

A very valid point! I'm good out to 75-100m with my target Buckmark, and I'll bet the 'ol 10/22 would do even better, but the whole point (to me) of having more metal is range. I've already got a good volume fire weapon in both the 1911 and 870 (when reloading is spaced properly, I guess); but the point of a projectile of large mass is to reach out and touch something. Any .22 that I've fired in the past has suffered from tumble at some point out past 100-150m, and coupling already low projectile mass with degrading aerodynamic efficiency will result in something that just won't do the damage out at 300m. A good compromise here would be the NATO 5.56/Rem. .223 afore mentioned, but I'm looking for something to use for more than just Zed - I'd like a good pack gun in the meantime.

And since it's not a volume-fire weapon, I don't really need to carry much in the way of ammo - just make sure I collect the brass and have the polisher and the press in the pickup.

Another interesting tidbit: you can make most common imperial unit rifle cartridges out of .30-06 brass - short of .223/other .22 wildcat cartridges.

[RandomCarnie]

Also, GENJU Æ:

I forgot to mention these when you were praising simple weapons:
http://www.hr1871.com/Firearms/Rifles/handiRifle.asp

I've been looking at these since sometime this summer (when I picked up a little break-20.Ga. of the same action to play with). Multiple barrels in various different calibers can be ordered from the factory (including shotgun barrels), meaning only one registered serial number for a weapon of multiple different bore sizes.

The only real downside of these would be the average rate of fire; but they're one of the most simple, straightforward rifle designs I can think of. Still, would make a great pack rifle for the North country (especially the stainless one <3).

[Xolotl]

Mmmmmmm, Sako rifles==tasty!

As far as AR's go, I'd go with something as commonplace as possible, like an AR-series weapon, or an AK, even an HK-G3. I think the one I'd be after though would be the FN L1A1 SLR - especially if I could find an FN made weapon. The main reason for this is that, not only does FN use great metals and machining techniques, but that it's chambered in .308, which has astounding ballistic qualities at longer ranges.

In the end though, I'd have to agree with GENJU Æ, in that the simplest weapons are the best. Anything with a simple blowback, pump, or bolt action is going to have a far more maintainable action than the average gas-operated AR. It's not that gas systems are more prone to failure, it's just that one has to know what they're doing as far as cleaning/maintenance goes.

Also, really digging that 7615P! Built on the 870 action, which is bloody bulletproof! Dual-rail pump FTW!
Now if only they made it in .308/.30-06...

I understand the human desire for more metal but along the idea of simplistics is also weight. Not an exact estimate here but for every .30-06 or 7.62 round you carry I can carry 5 or 6 Ballistic tipped or JHP .22 Magnum rounds. Not saying you do but for all the people that doubt it, I've dropped Whitetail/Mule Deer and Boars with .22 Ultra Mag loads, every time I hit its a sure-kill. You only need enough mass and velocity to get into the braincase, once the bullet goes into the skull you don't need to worry about it exiting as it will still have enough energy after entry to bounce around a couple times inside the cranium to scramble the ol' grey matter.

if you're going for a headshot (we all know that's what gets the job done) .22 is plenty. Anything with enough power to pass through, or even damage the skull would work. Maybe we should learn to use a sling, not sling-shot, I'm talkin Old Testament sling.

If you can get hold of a gun of some kind it's probably a waste of time learning it. Back in the ye-olde days when those things were actual weapons of war, the guys who were using them had been training with them for ages and probably had a 1 in 10 chance of scoring a direct hit. They were also veterens who'd been using those things in combat for a few years. Admitedly they can really fuck a guy up, i saw a re-enactor with one of them and he said that the stone they threw had enough force to turn an unprotectd head into mush. I'd get a .22 if i were you since you'll have more chance of getting good quickly and you can carry a lot more ammunition than most guns or even the sling.

[Rooster]

Mmmmmmm, Sako rifles==tasty!

As far as AR's go, I'd go with something as commonplace as possible, like an AR-series weapon, or an AK, even an HK-G3. I think the one I'd be after though would be the FN L1A1 SLR - especially if I could find an FN made weapon. The main reason for this is that, not only does FN use great metals and machining techniques, but that it's chambered in .308, which has astounding ballistic qualities at longer ranges.

In the end though, I'd have to agree with GENJU Æ, in that the simplest weapons are the best. Anything with a simple blowback, pump, or bolt action is going to have a far more maintainable action than the average gas-operated AR. It's not that gas systems are more prone to failure, it's just that one has to know what they're doing as far as cleaning/maintenance goes.

Also, really digging that 7615P! Built on the 870 action, which is bloody bulletproof! Dual-rail pump FTW!
Now if only they made it in .308/.30-06...

I understand the human desire for more metal but along the idea of simplistics is also weight. Not an exact estimate here but for every .30-06 or 7.62 round you carry I can carry 5 or 6 Ballistic tipped or JHP .22 Magnum rounds. Not saying you do but for all the people that doubt it, I've dropped Whitetail/Mule Deer and Boars with .22 Ultra Mag loads, every time I hit its a sure-kill. You only need enough mass and velocity to get into the braincase, once the bullet goes into the skull you don't need to worry about it exiting as it will still have enough energy after entry to bounce around a couple times inside the cranium to scramble the ol' grey matter.

if you're going for a headshot (we all know that's what gets the job done) .22 is plenty. Anything with enough power to pass through, or even damage the skull would work. Maybe we should learn to use a sling, not sling-shot, I'm talkin Old Testament sling.

If you can get hold of a gun of some kind it's probably a waste of time learning it. Back in the ye-olde days when those things were actual weapons of war, the guys who were using them had been training with them for ages and probably had a 1 in 10 chance of scoring a direct hit. They were also veterens who'd been using those things in combat for a few years. Admitedly they can really fuck a guy up, i saw a re-enactor with one of them and he said that the stone they threw had enough force to turn an unprotectd head into mush. I'd get a .22 if i were you since you'll have more chance of getting good quickly and you can carry a lot more ammunition than most guns or even the sling.

I completely agree, I was just saying if you had no gun or ammo. A couple cordes, strip of cloth, and a rock > nothing at all

[Elephant]

Mmmmmmm, Sako rifles==tasty!

As far as AR's go, I'd go with something as commonplace as possible, like an AR-series weapon, or an AK, even an HK-G3. I think the one I'd be after though would be the FN L1A1 SLR - especially if I could find an FN made weapon. The main reason for this is that, not only does FN use great metals and machining techniques, but that it's chambered in .308, which has astounding ballistic qualities at longer ranges.

In the end though, I'd have to agree with GENJU Æ, in that the simplest weapons are the best. Anything with a simple blowback, pump, or bolt action is going to have a far more maintainable action than the average gas-operated AR. It's not that gas systems are more prone to failure, it's just that one has to know what they're doing as far as cleaning/maintenance goes.

Also, really digging that 7615P! Built on the 870 action, which is bloody bulletproof! Dual-rail pump FTW!
Now if only they made it in .308/.30-06...

I understand the human desire for more metal but along the idea of simplistics is also weight. Not an exact estimate here but for every .30-06 or 7.62 round you carry I can carry 5 or 6 Ballistic tipped or JHP .22 Magnum rounds. Not saying you do but for all the people that doubt it, I've dropped Whitetail/Mule Deer and Boars with .22 Ultra Mag loads, every time I hit its a sure-kill. You only need enough mass and velocity to get into the braincase, once the bullet goes into the skull you don't need to worry about it exiting as it will still have enough energy after entry to bounce around a couple times inside the cranium to scramble the ol' grey matter.

if you're going for a headshot (we all know that's what gets the job done) .22 is plenty. Anything with enough power to pass through, or even damage the skull would work. Maybe we should learn to use a sling, not sling-shot, I'm talkin Old Testament sling.

If you can get hold of a gun of some kind it's probably a waste of time learning it. Back in the ye-olde days when those things were actual weapons of war, the guys who were using them had been training with them for ages and probably had a 1 in 10 chance of scoring a direct hit. They were also veterens who'd been using those things in combat for a few years. Admitedly they can really fuck a guy up, i saw a re-enactor with one of them and he said that the stone they threw had enough force to turn an unprotectd head into mush. I'd get a .22 if i were you since you'll have more chance of getting good quickly and you can carry a lot more ammunition than most guns or even the sling.

I completely agree, I was just saying if you had no gun or ammo. A couple cordes, strip of cloth, and a rock > nothing at all

perhaps, but not if it gives you the undeserved confidence boost that keeps you in the losing fight that extra time that gets you eaten.

[Rooster]

Mmmmmmm, Sako rifles==tasty!

As far as AR's go, I'd go with something as commonplace as possible, like an AR-series weapon, or an AK, even an HK-G3. I think the one I'd be after though would be the FN L1A1 SLR - especially if I could find an FN made weapon. The main reason for this is that, not only does FN use great metals and machining techniques, but that it's chambered in .308, which has astounding ballistic qualities at longer ranges.

In the end though, I'd have to agree with GENJU Æ, in that the simplest weapons are the best. Anything with a simple blowback, pump, or bolt action is going to have a far more maintainable action than the average gas-operated AR. It's not that gas systems are more prone to failure, it's just that one has to know what they're doing as far as cleaning/maintenance goes.

Also, really digging that 7615P! Built on the 870 action, which is bloody bulletproof! Dual-rail pump FTW!
Now if only they made it in .308/.30-06...

I understand the human desire for more metal but along the idea of simplistics is also weight. Not an exact estimate here but for every .30-06 or 7.62 round you carry I can carry 5 or 6 Ballistic tipped or JHP .22 Magnum rounds. Not saying you do but for all the people that doubt it, I've dropped Whitetail/Mule Deer and Boars with .22 Ultra Mag loads, every time I hit its a sure-kill. You only need enough mass and velocity to get into the braincase, once the bullet goes into the skull you don't need to worry about it exiting as it will still have enough energy after entry to bounce around a couple times inside the cranium to scramble the ol' grey matter.

if you're going for a headshot (we all know that's what gets the job done) .22 is plenty. Anything with enough power to pass through, or even damage the skull would work. Maybe we should learn to use a sling, not sling-shot, I'm talkin Old Testament sling.

If you can get hold of a gun of some kind it's probably a waste of time learning it. Back in the ye-olde days when those things were actual weapons of war, the guys who were using them had been training with them for ages and probably had a 1 in 10 chance of scoring a direct hit. They were also veterens who'd been using those things in combat for a few years. Admitedly they can really fuck a guy up, i saw a re-enactor with one of them and he said that the stone they threw had enough force to turn an unprotectd head into mush. I'd get a .22 if i were you since you'll have more chance of getting good quickly and you can carry a lot more ammunition than most guns or even the sling.

I completely agree, I was just saying if you had no gun or ammo. A couple cordes, strip of cloth, and a rock > nothing at all

perhaps, but not if it gives you the undeserved confidence boost that keeps you in the losing fight that extra time that gets you eaten.

I'm not saying charge into battle with your trusty sling. I agree its not a first-choice type of weapon.

[autonomous]

.22 rifles are Very good rifles for learning to shoot because for 400 dollars you can get a decent rifle and enough ammo to spend a very long amount of time shooting. But if you are not getting head shots then the lack of stopping power could be an issue. While 2 rounds to the body with a 7.62 round is sufficient to put most things down. Here is the link to an interesting article I read on the effects of bullets on human body's. http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Fackler_Articles/effects_of_small_arms.pdf

[GENJψ Æ 穴☼☢۞҉░]

My rule of nature's buttplug (thumbs...): come Z-Day I'm not goin to mess with a zombie thats more then 100 feet away from me if I don't have to especially if we face a shambler scenario or if it does not notice me or there are obstacles/barriers between me and Fred the Zed that give me the chance to evade and lose it. This formula will have 3 different affects on my ammo;
1)at that range there will be nil difference between a .22 Magnum round and a .30-06 when it comes to brain-busting
2)accuracy for Mr. Average L. Shooter will be in the high marks
3)conservation of ammo

with the understanding of wanting to have long range stopping power handy for large animal game procurement and hostile target suppression and elimination one thing that I thought of doing is taking an average lever-action, bolt-action or rifle/shotgun over-under combo and just converting it into a home-jobby bullpup to cut down on weight and size including thinning down/shaving the fore-end of the stock. Don't worry about the barrel all that much, if you look at most Olympic grade firearms the barrels are lots of times free-floating. Don't sweat barrel-bending, as long as you keep up with the routine target practice you can zero in the sights/scopes to account for this since normally it takes time for it to become significant unless you have been out clubbing (literally...) A good example of this could be a >Marlin Model 1895SBL chambered in 45-70 Govt.< with a forward-seated scope and mount a buttplate/buttpad just behind the lever-action handle to bring down the size and weight.

http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/13/34/07/65/shotch11.jpg

The above link will take you to a pic I up'd that is a ammo size comparison chart and if you view it in original size I believe this is the one that will show the rounds in 1:1 life-size comparison for those who don't realize the significant differences between a .22 Magnum and a 7.62 or .30-06 round ( or a .50 Caliber for that matter lol)

[Dan Champion]

I wanted the rifle not for a situation where I could run and evade, but where I could be inside or on top of my unmovable safe-house that needs its perimeter secure.

[juggajames]

I'd go with conservation of ammo/energy. Meaning avoiding zeds at all cost.

[Rooster]

youre gonna have to kill em all sooner or later.

[GENJψ Æ 穴☼☢۞҉░]

youre gonna have to kill em all sooner or later.

yeah but it later has a chance of me bashing brains with a spade or a pick-hammer, I'm gonna take it if the moment arises.

[Twitch]

Lee-Enfields and Russian Nangant bolt-actions should be the standard issue for the Z:CORPS.
They're relatively cheap weapons, averaging $70-90 USD, you can buy them when you're 18, and bayonets can help when zeds get too close.. They're incredibly reliable weapons, able to take a few smacks and knocks, such as dropping and being thrown, also for crushing in a zed's skull. Hell, everyone of them we get our hands on are a good 50-100 years older than anyone is using them, and they've last fine. Little jamming, pretty damn accurate and probably one of the best weapons to train rookies with. It's lightwight and easily carried, and The bolt action also requires the wielder to slow down and aim, thereby not wasting ammo. 303's are big bullets, and if they don't make a kill shot, there is a good chance to blow a limb off.
Even after z-day, i can't imagine many people would think of taking these in favor of shotguns, and automatic weapons.

not to mention they're just damn beautiful guns.