Who decides what laws to uphold and establishes order?

[remo jackson]

Given the severity of any Z event, those survivors left must now form some sort of cohesive set of rules and laws to adhere to.

As an example, a Level 4 global Z event that shuts down society as we know it. No more global airline flights, basic neccessities are now rationed and fortified cities and towns with groups distrustful of each other form.

Now add some more anarchy to the mix in the form of roving gangs, ripping, robbing, raping and pillaging smaller enclaves for no other purpose then for the hell of it and to see what they can steal or break. (as an example, the orginal Dawn of the Dead, the bikers towards the end of the film.) Who will apply law and order to this type of situtaion?

With the constant threat of Zed coming at you when you least expect it, distrust of other survivors, lack of a governing power who may or may not still be alive and somewhat functioning, and lack of basic essentials all this may lead to the creation of fiefdoms and fuedal society. This could lead to warlord mentality with each walled enclave having its own security force/army willing and able to fight it's neighbors for what it needs instead of establishing trade/barter with them. Why trade when you can take by force mentality.

Who will step forward and initiate trade with another armed and fortified group? Who will take responsibility for order in a world of chaos? Would this truly be anarchy where no one is in charge?

Lets say that someone actually steps forward and takes the reins to bring order to madness. What will the punishment be for those violating the law? Exiled from existing society? Shot? Fed to Zed? What type of rule will be established? King? President? Duke? Dictator?

Without a larger government control overseeing the operation of smaller units, there could be a breakup such as the former Soviet Union saw in the Balkans. Each country, state, county now peels off from the main governing power and becomes its own little country, society, enclave. From that point, we get an idealistic view of what is what. Using the Balkans as an example, we see how people of like minds, religious persuasion and ancestory will migrate into groups and either peacefully co-exist with each other or violently wage war on those people unlike themselves.

Who then establishes any form of law and order if there is no more powerful group, government, agency who could defuse the situation before mass genocide or other atrocities occur?

Afterall, absolute power absolutely corrupts. To see at least one example of this view Romero's Land of the Dead.

[Just Jack]

Good question... very serious matter, this is. I'll have to think about it.

[hunter00181]

us as z corp could be become our own goverment and country becasuse if i was a survivor in an almost empty world i would take land as my own so alot of fudalism but we can all trust each other and pick up small groups of people and execute any1 who breaks a rule so we should have a low amount of laws and make examples of the rapists and gangs and robbers

[remo jackson]

us as z corp could be become our own goverment and country becasuse if i was a survivor in an almost empty world i would take land as my own so alot of fudalism but we can all trust each other and pick up small groups of people and execute any1 who breaks a rule so we should have a low amount of laws and make examples of the rapists and gangs and robbers

Good point, yet you forget one thing, in that type of world, who makes the rules and laws and who enforces them. Granted that the laws would have to be a bit severe. Trust will be a hard thing to come by in those trying times. How will those small groups assimilate into your pre-existing group? What happens when a group doesn't want to join the Z-Corps group? Kill them and take their supplies? Or establish some sort of trade or friendly interaction with them?

Anyone remember the old saying, 'see the new masters, same as the old ones.'?

So now Z-Corps just takes what it wants in an almost empty land? How does that make Z-Corps better than the gangs or robbers and rapists? We're bigger and better armed so everyone needs to listen to what we say? Not likely thats going to happen in any way peaceful.

Sounds like what you're saying is that we just take what we want because we can. That's not going to work that way and establish trust with other survivor groups. If Z-Corps appears to just take what it wants, how can we be looked upon by other survivors as anything than just a group of rabid animals? That makes us no better than the looters seen on TV in the aftermath of Katrina.

The subject of laws and interactions with other survivor groups needs to be addressed very carefully. From another perspective, look at it from a non Z-Corps survivor group. You and others have somehow managed to survive the initial event, secured an area and have adequate supplies with minimal risk and contact with hostile Zed. Along comes a large, well armed and trained group and instead of establishing some sort of friendship and trust, this other group just walks in and takes what they think is rightfully theirs. Talk about creating dissent and animosity among the ranks.

Personally, I say put out feelers to other survivor groups and ask them if they would interested in a barter/trade arrangement and somewhere down the line, mention asborbing them into Z-Corps. Its unlikely that every Z-Corps group will survive a major Z Event. Those groups that are lost can try to reconstitute into another group but the manpower and expertise that is expected to be lost will not be able to be replaced in a reasonable amount of time. Therefore, it would be Z-Corps best interest to make peaceful contact with other survivor groups and not walk in and take them over or take land that those groups may have been using for substenance crops.

[hunter00181]

No i didm't want to take anything im just not good at explaining any one who didn't want to join we give them some supplies if they are low and send them off and i don't really think that we would be bad as the raiders who onlt take other peoples supplies if we take land no one owns, even if someone owned and is still alive some where we'd give them options if we allready made a settle ment there we'd ask them to join us or we'd go get them some land and guard and help them as they build and the setting might be more like small groups of people all over the us all peaceful at first but someone once said the war doesn't change the people do which means that people will fight no matter what so we will be involed in batlle whether with an ally or someone attacking us our selves.

[Alaskanon]

I know that I plan on looting abandon stores for supplies, But there is no intention on taking anything by force/intimidation. I plan on having a group of 5 or so in an encampment, and mainly hunting/gathering. But will head off to a shop every now and again for supplies to make life a little better. Get a few more laptops, have some solar/wind/hydro generators (all would work wonderfully here as it is the 3rd wettest place on earth and with a lot of rain comes a lot of wind. And solar for the 4 days of the year it's not raining.

[hunter00181]

i might do somethind like that and i might meet up with you im heading to alska but not to go off subject i was speaking off raiders

[Alaskanon]

Sorry about running off like that, I tend to ramble a bit

[hunter00181]

no i was going off subject but to attempt to finish off this topic as many people agree it would be ompossible to contain people in a town so goverments won't exsisit but groups will and basically wat they do will be planeed out so that settles it for me

[Just Jack]

us as z corp could be become our own goverment and country becasuse if i was a survivor in an almost empty world i would take land as my own so alot of fudalism but we can all trust each other and pick up small groups of people and execute any1 who breaks a rule so we should have a low amount of laws and make examples of the rapists and gangs and robbers

Good point, yet you forget one thing, in that type of world, who makes the rules and laws and who enforces them. Granted that the laws would have to be a bit severe. Trust will be a hard thing to come by in those trying times. How will those small groups assimilate into your pre-existing group? What happens when a group doesn't want to join the Z-Corps group? Kill them and take their supplies? Or establish some sort of trade or friendly interaction with them?

Anyone remember the old saying, 'see the new masters, same as the old ones.'?

So now Z-Corps just takes what it wants in an almost empty land? How does that make Z-Corps better than the gangs or robbers and rapists? We're bigger and better armed so everyone needs to listen to what we say? Not likely thats going to happen in any way peaceful.

Sounds like what you're saying is that we just take what we want because we can. That's not going to work that way and establish trust with other survivor groups. If Z-Corps appears to just take what it wants, how can we be looked upon by other survivors as anything than just a group of rabid animals? That makes us no better than the looters seen on TV in the aftermath of Katrina.

The subject of laws and interactions with other survivor groups needs to be addressed very carefully. From another perspective, look at it from a non Z-Corps survivor group. You and others have somehow managed to survive the initial event, secured an area and have adequate supplies with minimal risk and contact with hostile Zed. Along comes a large, well armed and trained group and instead of establishing some sort of friendship and trust, this other group just walks in and takes what they think is rightfully theirs. Talk about creating dissent and animosity among the ranks.

Personally, I say put out feelers to other survivor groups and ask them if they would interested in a barter/trade arrangement and somewhere down the line, mention asborbing them into Z-Corps. Its unlikely that every Z-Corps group will survive a major Z Event. Those groups that are lost can try to reconstitute into another group but the manpower and expertise that is expected to be lost will not be able to be replaced in a reasonable amount of time. Therefore, it would be Z-Corps best interest to make peaceful contact with other survivor groups and not walk in and take them over or take land that those groups may have been using for substenance crops.

I like the idea of giving loners a sample of our society and giving them a choice if they would want to join us or go on their own. If we are as generous as that in our reputation we would also need to be strong and keep our own tales safe by enforcing the rules well while being heavily armed and trained. You understand? To survive we'd need respect amongst the punks, and fear within our enemies.

[hunter00181]

thats basically wat imk going for

[Just Jack]

I've been going by "Only the strong survive" all my life and I'm convinced it's the best way to live... I guess it might be different for other people though depending on what they consider 'living'.

[hunter00181]

they may be able to farm for us or something else

[remo jackson]

A way to foster good intentions to those non Z-Corps survivor groups would be to interact with them as advisors. Not lead them but maybe do an exchange with a few of their people for a few of our people. Our people stay with that group for a short or moderate period of time and trade ideas while the groups people learn and train with our methods. Once word of that gets around to any other survivor groups, Z-Corps won't be looked upon as a threat but more of an asset to everyone's survival.

[hunter00181]

Or a very amart group filled with supplies