Re: Who decides what laws to uphold and establishes order?

[Just Jack]

A way to foster good intentions to those non Z-Corps survivor groups would be to interact with them as advisors. Not lead them but maybe do an exchange with a few of their people for a few of our people. Our people stay with that group for a short or moderate period of time and trade ideas while the groups people learn and train with our methods. Once word of that gets around to any other survivor groups, Z-Corps won't be looked upon as a threat but more of an asset to everyone's survival.

I like that idea. As long as we stay trained and prepared for any assaults that come our way.

[JFreeman]

Lucas Simms, sheriff/mayor of Megaton. 8D

[hunter00181]

maybe but we might lose experinced men that way and could leave us vunrable for a raid

[juxtaposedjoker]

Sometimes when I think about how I would survive the initial outbreak I wonder why should I? A world where almost all modern invention is gone wherein people are reduced to a pre-industrial age lifestyle is not very appealing especially when one includes what you are talking about. The struggle for power. The struggle for law and order. I think that you stressed some very good points.

I imagine the aftermath of the initial outbreak to resemble life as it was in the 1600's. Give or take the random genius that has access to still working generators or solar power. Really, I'm talking about a period of time anywhere from fifteen to fifty years after the outbreak. Technologies that survived will eventually not be maintained on a mass scale and people will be forced to establish groups that will most likely resemble the first colonies in North America in size and technology. Like those colonies, I see law and leadership depending on several factors, which are: the religious overtones of the group, the personalities of the group and the monetary success of a group.

Anyone who is spiritually inclined may search for a religious meaning to it all. I think it would be easy to equate a massive outbreak to the rapture or some sort of other religious event. It’s very easy to warp scripture (of any religion) to explain world events. I can foresee groups under a religious heading being similar to the pilgrims and the other protestant groups that came to North America. I also think they would have the same problems. They will be ruled by their spiritual leader and will get along or fight over religion and scripture interpretations just as those early colonists did.

Other groups may be drawn together by circumstance and these will be the most diverse. The laws they choose and whom they choose to lead will depend on the events the groups encounter and their personalities. Say they survive a skirmish with a roving band bent on their destruction due to the efforts of one or several individuals with military experience. That group may choose to yield power to those who can protect them best. While another group may insist on a democracy and they vote for who will lead. Other groups still may let situation dictate who leads. Need supplies? Let the economic savvy person handle it. Need to survive? Give the guns to the marksmen. etc etc. Still other groups may have a more communal nature. Not talking hippies but they may have several leaders that come to a consensus first.

Lastly, the factor that I think will rule the most successful and powerful groups will be monetary/wealth. The best way to get people to follow you is success. If your group is prosperous with a high survival rate wherein basic even non-basic needs are being met then you will draw in more people by example. Most of those people will be looking for a better life and will give in to whatever ruling establishment the successful group has for the sake of survival. That ruling establishment will depend on the above however to use the early Quaker colonies as an example, I think the more tolerant groups will be the wealthiest.

Sort of a chaos factor to the whole thing is morality. How many people will truly stick to the morality they have now when there are no court systems or police to get them? For the first decade or so after the outbreak I think a large percentage of people will try to emulate what they knew. But as time ebbs away at what was people will need to realize what is and adapt to that reality. Things once considered taboo will become commonplace and that will dramatically affect concepts of leadership and law.

The best way to view leadership and law is a state of flux. It will depend on each group and the members of that group.

In my humble opinion, it's better to be alone or with a small and by small I mean a group of five or fewer group of people. The larger the group more of a chance for all sorts of crazy. Every group will be in a constant struggle for power either overtly or subtly and I have no interest in any of that. I would just want to be left alone with my pot plant. ^_^

[Just Jack]

I'm the same as you, man.

[Alaskanon]

Anyone who is spiritually inclined may search for a religious meaning to it all. I think it would be easy to equate a massive outbreak to the rapture or some sort of other religious event.

Well if you watch the remake of DotD (Dawn of the Dead in case of any confusion) after they get to the mall and are watching TV there is a reverend (I'm assuming so) talking about the bible. He was says "'Hell is overflowing and Satan is sending his dead to us. Why? Because you have sex out of wedlock, you kill unborn children, you have man-on-man relations, same-sex marriage. How do you think your God will judge you? Well, friends, now we know. When there is no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth."

[Laughing Dude]

Who decides what laws to uphold and establishes order?

The man with the gun.

[♫GENJUÆ穴☼☢۞҉░♫]

People want to bring religion into politics?! Dont overlook why our fore-fathers wrote the constitution and bill of rights as being ambiguous and two sided: as I love to remind the "religious folk" who think this country was settled by good "christian folk"... Freedom of religion also means Freedom OF Religion.

Sometimes I think I'm the only one who remembers the term "separation of church and state"

[juxtaposedjoker]

Anyone who is spiritually inclined may search for a religious meaning to it all. I think it would be easy to equate a massive outbreak to the rapture or some sort of other religious event.

Well if you watch the remake of DotD (Dawn of the Dead in case of any confusion) after they get to the mall and are watching TV there is a reverend (I'm assuming so) talking about the bible. He was says "'Hell is overflowing and Satan is sending his dead to us. Why? Because you have sex out of wedlock, you kill unborn children, you have man-on-man relations, same-sex marriage. How do you think your God will judge you? Well, friends, now we know. When there is no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth."

I'm behind on my zombie movie watching. I just got into zombies recently but that quote sums up what I meant precisely about those who will take a religious spin to it.

[MaxWeiner]

I think the religous groups will uphold the most power for a long time. Survivors will be distraught and once the "smoke clears" they will seek some sort of omnipotent explanation and uphold a life ruled under whatever their religion constitutes. A large portion of the world is religious already and the fanatics will be the ones to rise to power using fear to further their agendas. Then there will be a polar nearly completely scientific group, such as z corps. I think the religious powers will war with eachother but ally with us or whatever the large scientific power(s) is/are. Rules should be more liberal where the science lies but I can't help but imagining it becoming a large dictatorship as it gains power. A lot of people will die in the beginning to make sure the set rules in whatever group are uphold and probably in brutal ways to make examples and help enforce the laws.

[Laughing Dude]

People will flock to one of four sides:
The religious, who will offer hope and unity
The powerful, who will offer security and safety
The criminal, who will offer a care-free lifestyle and power
And the technological, who will offer the greatest gifts: a return to normalcy and a higher standard of living.

Sure, it's fun to just shoot people or be part of a cult, but the group who can promise you power and running water is going to get your vote. The key is to preserve as much modern knowledge as possible. When ammo runs out, and the rest devolve back to the Dark Ages, while the citizens of Gadgetzhan will have clean water, power, gunpowder, and the convinces they once thought forever lost. Why do the mexicans risk life and limb to get to America? Opportunity and a higher standard of living. However, if you want a powerhouse, combine technological with religious. Fanatics who are willing to die for the life that IS actually better then anybody else's?
The Brotherhood of Steel is such a powerhouse. One would be wise to examine their model.

[Just Jack]

People will flock to one of four sides:
The religious, who will offer hope and unity
The powerful, who will offer security and safety
The criminal, who will offer a care-free lifestyle and power
And the technological, who will offer the greatest gifts: a return to normalcy and a higher standard of living.

Sure, it's fun to just shoot people or be part of a cult, but the group who can promise you power and running water is going to get your vote. The key is to preserve as much modern knowledge as possible. When ammo runs out, and the rest devolve back to the Dark Ages, while the citizens of Gadgetzhan will have clean water, power, gunpowder, and the convinces they once thought forever lost. Why do the mexicans risk life and limb to get to America? Opportunity and a higher standard of living. However, if you want a powerhouse, combine technological with religious. Fanatics who are willing to die for the life that IS actually better then anybody else's?
The Brotherhood of Steel is such a powerhouse. One would be wise to examine their model.

Someone's been playing WoW. On a more serious note, you can't just lay down the lines for what's going to be happening within each group. First of all, the "criminals" as you so bluntly put it, will have their dreams come true of being free of the system but them doing whatever they want doesn't necessarily mean they will fail making society. And the "powerful" have as much of a chance to fail at upholding a functional society just as much as the "criminals". The citizens may get a feeling like "Why are we listening to this guy? We're all the same now, our past lives are meaningless now. Just because he used to be President of At&t doesn't mean he knows how to keep us alive!" Then they might form a rebel group to either run away or take over control. I think the rebel groups with a balanced view of everything that's happened have more of a chance surviving longer than a new society trying to keep 300 people alive with only a couple of leaders or a council, they will probably fail just like most unlucky netherworld societies now. The rebel groups will be like the tribes of the netherworld regions and uphold a very small and working utopia where everyone accepts their fate.

Sorry, dunno if that was me rambling on what goes on in the back of my head or me debating... I guess it was half and half.

[autonomous]

I think you can break the category of criminals down even farther. well you have the run of the mill scum that will make up raiders and thieves. There will also be the more dangerous version who place no value in human life and use a shoot everyone first, ask you to hand over the loot latter, rape the survivors strategy. The last category is a small one but exist today, sociopaths or serial killers could easily and effectively destroy a group from the inside.

[Laughing Dude]

By the criminal I ment the raiders, the groups who will simply steal what they want, kill what they want, rape what they want. Think orks. No law or order beyond the simple tribal chieftan, the most powerful strong man, while the "tribe" simple lives a life of hedonism and violence. In essence, the perfect tribe for the budding 16 year old.

To deny that these will exist in this fashion is to deny human nature.

[Corpsy]

I would propose this.

Establish a semi-socialist government with its own trained armed force. Always expand and when run into outlaws, kill them, take supplies. If outlaws come at your little society either A) Fight them, B) Evacuate your society or hide, afterward follow the raiders and use guerrilla tactics on them to eventually retake supplies. When run into a band of other more friendly survivors offer them to join, if they join good for you, if they don't set up inter-group relationships and communications, help them build their society a little bit and offer them protection from time to time. Make everyone in your government swear an oath to protect the government and it's people and train them all for armed service, each person will receive the same training as the person next to them. Offer them all livable settlements and establish some sort of religious temple. Decisions would be made by a council and voted on by the people when its narrowed down. Establish a president forever rule meaning that you will be leader of your government until you die. Exile fanatics, robbers/looters and minor crime people. Terrorists, murderers and rapists should be executed via any means possible besides getting eaten by a zed (since that only fuels the zed). On the matter of drugs I would say to let marijuana, mushrooms, acid and other non addictive psychedelics go since I see no danger to the government to them. However make all on duty personnel (guards and shit) stay clean for their shifts. I say martial law until you get into a big enough society and establish a firefighting system and hospital system.

That's just my 2 cents.